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trickythom · Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:19 am Post subject: experimenting

Today I decided to experiment with diffrent agars on diffrent mushrooms.
I mixed up some malt,dog food and oatmeal agars.
I took tissue samples from shiitke,oyster,crimini and buttons. And spores from portabellas and shiitake. Put them on diffrent agars and now I am waiting for the results.
I will keep you updated.
Anyone have any comments on the agars and strains?
Here is a stupid pictoral of this evenings adventures.
http://trickythom.com/v-web/gallery/Produceislehunting
I bought the mushrooms at my local supermarket.

Peace,
Thom

cultured1 · Member Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 86

I was just discussing agar with a doctor of mycology yesterday, telling him about the agar I use, malt extract agar with a pinch of yeast extract added into the mix. I was told that it is probably the best & simplest ones to use for maintaining mycolocical cultures. I'm not even going to bother with anything else.

Funguy · Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:31 pm Post subject:

Nice pics thanks, I still can't get past the hepa .thanks for sharing .Cultured1, I use the same formula for most . Changing the diet is a good thing from time to time ,according to stamets .I once knew a guy from Israel that instead of agar he used card board in his petris .I say use what works best for what ever you are growing.Keep Us posted .
_________________
I would rather have a bottle in front of me,
Than a frontal lobodomy

c · Member Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 123

Nice pics, good luck.

cultured1 · Member Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 86

Love the cardboard idea. Sounds like it would work fine for oysters, shitake, & other wood loving species.
I was wondering about Stamets recommending changing agar. Is it really necessary, or just another way Stamets can promote selling more agar on his site.
Let's examine the steps in mushroom cultivation and think about it.
Stock cultures are maintained on agar plates or slants. Most "all purpose" media contain simple sugars as a carbohydrate, & maybe peptone or other nitrogen source. PDA will have some starch from the potato infusion, otherwise there aren't a lot of complex carbohydrates.
Mycellium is transfered to grain which will be used as spawn. Grain has to be malted & mashed for starch to be converted to sugar. Whole rye isn't malted, so you've now gone from a sugar based media to a starch based one. There is a lag phase as the mycellium adjusts to it's new environment, then healthy growth.
The next step is the spawning of a bulk substrate. Depending on the species of mushroom, the substrate may be a dung & straw based compost, maybe a wood based one. Again there is a lag, then growth & hopefully fruit.
The different nutrient sources all require different enzymes for utilization. The ability of an organism to produce various enzymes is genetically predetermined. I'd have to disagree with TMC the ability to digest certain food sources isn't lost just because it wasn't there in previous stages of growth. Going from agar to rye to compost doesn't seem to slow these guys down.
How about formulating you own media for culture maintenance. If you made one that had a similar nutrient makup to your spawn or sub, there would be the least shock to the organism when transfered to a new medium. Try using water from rye cooking, or compost pasteurization for your next batch of agar, pass it through a coffee filter & prepare as usual.

Check out
Fundamental Principles of Bacteriology by A.J. Salle. There is a good chapter on pure culture techniques.
_________________

trickythom · Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:16 am Post subject:

Funguy · Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:33 am Post subject:

Ok here is Stamets Reasoning ,I was afraid I read this some where else.

Page 35 The Mushroom Cultivator

#2
Alter the media regularly using the fomulas described herein. Growing a strain on the same agar formula is not recommended because the nutrional composition of the medium exerts a selective influnence on the ability of the mushroom mycelium to produce digestive enzymes. By varying the media , the strain's enzyme system remains broadly based and the mycelium is better suited for survival.Species vary greatly in their preferences.Unless specific data is available, trial and error is the only recourse.

I also read something on growing volvariella and the altering of the medium ever so slightly keeps the strain growing vigorously .

This does make sense if you think about it .If you ate the same thing everyday ,you would be fine for a while ,then you would start experiencing deficantcies.Lack of vitamen and other nutrient that covers our needs .

DISCLAIMER

I just read and regurgetate this stuff ,I am not a pioneer ,I am a follower . Whos the master cultivator, me .Who is the Splinter of Fungi , me. Oh yeah did I mention , I am a storyteller also.
_________________
I would rather have a bottle in front of me,
Than a frontal lobodomy

cultured1 · Member Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 86

A ballanced diet is allways good, & varying mixes can't hurt. I just think the ability to digest different foods won't be lost, but the transition may be rougher.
How about 1 media for your stock culture, and something more representative of spawn & substrates for working cultures.

trickythom · Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 12:44 am Post subject:

Shitaki mushrooms hate oatmeal, but love dog food. They think the malt is ok too.
Oysters like everything, maybe the oatmeal more than the dog food.
Criminis and buttons are not big fans of oatmeal but like dog food and malt about equaly.
Damn, I forgot how tanacious oysters are. They have allready been transfered to rye along with the shitaki that was on dog food.
Still waiting for the other samples to grow out more.
I will try to get some picks up soon, but my connection at home is unreliable right now. (surfing off a neighbors wireless signal).
Thom

cultured1 · Member Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 86

Funguy · Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject:

Thom = mr resource , why pay monthly isp bill when you can pay a one time wireless card charge? You are the man . Hey, just bought a 36 x 24 x 5 7/8 Hepa filter .I was given a 1/6 hp squirrel cage fan , from a mobile home furnace .I am hoping this is enough to operate my hepa .I still need to build my box to hold filter and fan .I am in a hurry to get it up and running .I have a whole lot on my plate and don't want to use the glove box anymore .I need to back up about 20 cultures . I also need to reproduce a few for some friends . I am so ready for the flow hood thing .I have never worked with one ,I have always used a glove box . I liked my glove box ,the labor involved with using the glove box will not be missed ,nor the bleech eating my hands. I will miss the cramps and pains from sitting in the same position for extended periods of time .Unable to scratch my nose that itched from the time I started til I finished.

Peace
_________________
I would rather have a bottle in front of me,
Than a frontal lobodomy

trickythom · Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:56 am Post subject:

Funguy, good luck with the fan. I guess the trick is to work within 6 inches or so. I work within 10 inches. But I have a big one ya know. Shocked

I bet the squirrell fan thing will work. They are designed to push air through alot of duct work. I keep my fan allmost on full low while I am working. Just enugh to bend a candle flame. I kick it on high for about 20 min before I work, thinking that I will blow off anything that may be stuck to the front of the filter. I have yet to grow mold on anything. Just some bacteria on one sample, but that was probably bad handleing on my part.

I think because of the ease and the fact that I have no dog and a whole bag of dog food. I will be useing DFA exclusively for quite a while. It works. At least Purina dog chow anyway. And I sort of like the little bits that don't desolve, it looks cool.

20 grams of agar
20 grams of dog food (beat up with an old blade coffee grinder)
SIMPLE

Oh yea, blade coffee grinders are only good for grains and dog food. Not good for coffee beans, but coffee is another one of my passions so I should not go off on that tangent.